What do you find most valuable when it comes to reading blogs or answer forums on sites like Cheezhead, LinkedIn, ERE, RecruitingBlogs, or YahooGroups? The comments? The posts? The responses?
The value of social media is that it helps start a conversation. People can use forums like the ones I mentioned above to communicate, interact, and learn from people who only five years ago were unreachable and even anonymous. For me personally, I can usually find better, more up to date information about something from blogs or through posting questions on LinkedIn than nearly any other source. When I am looking for opinions and ambitiously go out to get feedback from the masses, I (and many other people I know) are comfortable relying on sites like Cheezhead, LinkedIn, and ERE to provide us with something like a sounding board to bounce ideas off of people, ask questions, and get input on products, services, technologies, and lots of other topics. The coffee shop is now online.
What happens though, when the information or responses you receive are completely manipulated, biased, and to be blunt, crap? What value does that deliver to anybody who comes across these forums, questions, comments, or posts?
Recently, perhaps it has something to do with desperation due to the economy or sheer vanity, I have been receiving a deluge of emails from people in the HR industry specifically that go something like this:
Mark –
I hope all is well with you.
Cheezhead (or LinkedIn, ERE, etc) posted a great article on x and I was wondering if you would go write about how much you like us!
Here’s the link –
Thanks for your help
Joe Schmoe
This same email was sent to hundreds to people with the same message, asking for the same thing.
Here’s the problem: in 95% of cases the people being emailed are not users of the product, service, or technology. They have no idea how it actually works but may know the person who sent them the email somewhat well. The receiver knows that if they don’t go and say something they risk making the sender angry.
It is straight coercion.
What happens next is that just like with any email marketing campaign you have a certain level of conversion, i.e. a percentage of people you email will do what you say.
The converted/coerced people will follow the link, read the post, and because they don’t actually have any experience with the product but feel pressured to write something they add something like:
You should check out xyz – they are great people there!
Or even worse, some comment that doesn’t even address the question or advice on using a product they know nothing about.
When people post a question or write a blog post about a service, technology or industry trend, what do they look for in return? I will venture to say that they are looking for feedback on actually using a service or technology – what people liked/disliked about, what they should look out for, and actual valuable discussion about the topic at hand.
As for the poster, he looks and says, “Wow! 22 people answered my question!” and he feels so optimistic. Once you start reading, though, you check off “Junk.” Junk. What does this one even mean? Junk. Oh that’s a good one. Junk. Junk. It takes a while, and you don’t find the answer or content you are looking for.
The reason for this post is that I’m tired of comment crap and I know the providers of fine sites like RecruitingBlogs worry about the editorial quality of their publication. Most of all, it’s getting to the point of being outrageous. It seems that every post that references a company gets hit with comment crap. Even more, a good friend of mine was recently ripped apart by a sender for not following their wishes. The reaction from the sender was full of vitriol and accusations that truly disgusted me (remember – emails can be forwarded). This industry already has a problem with the “cool kid hall” (thankfully we got rid of most of the blog popularity contests), but we seem to just be making it worse. It seems like if you don’t suck up to the popular kids, you may have just gotten yourself uninvited to the party.
People (specifically vendors) may say, well you are just jealous, or it’s part of our integrated marketing strategy. But it is all a catch-22. I hate it when people vandalize questions I pose with comment junk. Why should I (or anyone at HireVue – my online interview company) do it to other people?
So go right ahead and keep doing it if you want to. People aren’t dumb though, just keep that in mind. Everyone knows what you are doing. Everyone knows when responses are real and when they are not. Besides, If/when people catch wind of it (two great examples are Motrin recently on Twitter or John Mackey, CEO of Whole Foods, who had, for several years, been posting on the the Yahoo Finance message boards under a pseudonym, cheerleading his company’s success and denigrating its rival, Wild Oats. He even made predictions about the company’s stock price, putting out extremely high estimates for its performance – from TechDirt), things will take care of themselves.
I’m convinced if you provide a great product, a great service, and add value to your customers, the rest will take care of itself.
What it comes down to is try being genuine. My friend Jason Alba from JibberJobber agrees. His advice? “You have to be genuine in your questions, answers, comments, and blog posts. Otherwise people see right through it.”
I couldn’t have said it better.
Popularity: 7% [?]
January 13th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Hey Mark, I need some clarification. I understand your part about recruitingblogs caring about the editorial piece of it but are you saying that we take it too far? or that there is comment spam on the site? and also did a friend of yours get slammed with that nasty letter from someone on recruitingblogs.com? I am just asking because I am not sure I understand. please clarify. I appreciate it. Thanks.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
JD –
No, RecruitingBlogs does not take it too far. The example was missed a bit as I should have referenced more sites. I’m talking about how more than likely you (or Cheezhead etc) don’t want your site to turn into a site full of comment spam where people can’t get any information that they actually want or are looking for. If that happens, your site could become irrelevant to your target user. I regard RB with the same level as importance to the recruiting industry as any site out there (you’ve done a great job). You don’t want RB to become a joke that is one big site full of advertisements, you want it to be a site where people connect, discuss, and learn through interaction and sharing.
If certain people (we all know who many of them are) continue to do what they are doing every time there is a post, question, or article about their business etc every user and site suffers. We all know when something is fake and crap but it seems to happen every single time someone asks a question. Soon enough, everyone will just ignore these sites hoping that something better comes. Remember Recruiting.com when people would send out vote requests (TheLadders was particularly guilty of this a few times)? Soon enough people ignored the site in general and found Recruitingblogs where there wasn’t voting to see what was popular. May not be your opinion about what happened, but a lot of people I know share it.
To clarify, the slam came from not responding to a post on LinkedIn. The person in question gently replied that they weren’t going to respond and then was torn apart by the person through email for doing so. It was unprofessional, immature, and frankly pathetic. I lost all respect for the person who did it. Perhaps I should have stayed more on point about comment spam in general as it is a huge problem in my opinion, but the slam in question is what caused me to write the article so I had to talk about it.
Sorry for the confusion. What it comes down to is that certain people in the space need to cut the crap and let people find out what they actually want to find out. We want discussion and feedback, not constant advertising blitzes, advertisement comments (I’ve been guilty too), and support requests – nobody is served by that.
Keep up the good work. I hope I clarified things a bit.
Mark Newman
January 14th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Intresting(albeit confusing and marginally well written) post.
Your perspective is completely out of whack, though. Can’t you appreciate that the comments to a post are, in many ways, protected by the same blogging protocal/rules that blogging sites have tied themselves to for years? Blogs, when they started, were considered by mainstream “journalists” as a complete joke. They were a source for unaudited, unchecked, unvarifiable comments by fringe players within an industry. There was no sense of quality control nor was there any accountability for items posted. Blogs are inherently speculative, opinion based, and replete with half truths.
Bloggers, in the eyes of many, were those who couldn’t quite make it as a true mainstream expert or, more likely, couldn’t quite hold a job in the industry. “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, blog.”….that was the general consensus.
As bloggers, you thumb your noses at the idea of journalistic integrity and accountability and seem quite happy to exist within this Wild West version of the mainstream media.
And, I’m cool with all this. But, here’s the problem:
Now, you’re looking to edit those with commentary about your posts in the same way that mainstream, media sites would have liked to edit your blogs in the early days.
Settle down, don’t be a hypocrite, and let the info flow openly.
Oh, and Cheezhead is still a HUGE hack who’s only differentiation from Perez Hilton is that he doesn’t wear glasses. And, now that the money’s not flowing like it did last year, he may have to climb out of his parent’s basement, dust off the resume, and get a real job. And, guess what, I’m not sure he’s qualified to work in his own industry.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Ironically, Mr. Moldy Cheez, you are the one who is reading and commenting on these ‘wild wild west’ versions of the mainstream media. And all you had to say was an uninteresting, albeit poorly written comment. Why don’t you take the time to actually read the post?
Let me take a guess at what you do . . . spending your day driving listlessly from business to business, hocking those crappy Monster bundles to anyone who will take a few minutes to listen to your pathetic schpeel. Bless your heart. I feel so sorry for you.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Thanks Derelict…you behaved exactly as I hoped. Between you and I, we’ve added two more crap comments to Mark’s post. See, there’s no changing human nature. Let the crap flow. We’re jamming up the blog with more nonsense. Mark’s going insane, right now.
You’re clearly a turd. (now, you call me a jerk, ok?)
One clarification: Really, my vitriol is targeted to the full-time bloggers…not the guys/gals with real jobs who also happen to post. I should have been more clear about that.
So, you’re right Derelict, my writing could have been cleaner. I was in between cold calls to my CareerBuilder clients and not focused….you jerk! ;)
January 14th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Really good post Mark. Most readers of our blogs and articles don’t know the players well enough to decipher their various agendas. As a result they attach equal weight to all of the voices that pipe in, no matter how biased. Those that do attach weight often do so based on who is doing the talking – friends, etc., rather than what is being said.
It’s human nature, but frustrating nevertheless.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Moldy Cheez you are a coward. Writing without revealing your name has a long and important history when something is at stake, like your family or your freedom. Doing it on a blog like this is just weak and lame.
Mark, I make it a point to never try to sell thru comments- but there are all kinds of sock-puppets out there who feel otherwise.
It’s foolhardy to seek real advice from people you dont know and have no relationship with other than sharing a page-view. You want good advice, make some friends……
Lastly, you are of less value (odds are) to this world than Perez and maybe even Joel, since at least those two provide a decent amount of entertainment to people; and entertainment is not to be underestimated as a human value…
January 14th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Martin –
You are one person who I have never had a problem with. You add a tremendous amount of value in your commenting and are clear when and if you are the right solution. I’ve always appreciated that.
The sock puppets (and Moldy Cheez evidently) are the people I, and many other people, have a problem with.
As far as the other comments about my lack of friends (since I look for advice online), stupidity (for seeking advice from people online) and perhaps my lack of value (not sure if it was directed at me or ol’ Moldy). I can take it two ways – 1) you are looking a gift horse in the mouth because people like me have built your business by giving you and your employees the opportunity to educate us online in front of thousands of others about ATS systems all the time (not a potshot – your team is great at that) or 2) I suppose I’ve struck a chord with you – nothing quite like a first article that attracts personal attacks. I suppose I may not be worthy of your respect (much like the University of Utah football team compared to Ohio State)
In any event, I appreciate the commenting and hope all is well.
Mark
January 15th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Anonymous here for good reason. No need to have every water cooler comment permanently stuck in outerwebspace wiff my naymz on it.
Hang on good buds. Moldy was quite accurate. Bloggers at first bitched about being held to “higher” standards. Now you are holding commentors to higher standards?
That is a double standard.
This world y’all have created wherein you banter back and forth about job boreds, ATS “solutions”, and did I mention job boreds (intentially misspelled for effect) how much of this shit are we obligated to read without slapping up a comment which may not be exactly to y’alls liking?
Also agree though Moldy was most likely tongue in cheek with his comment – blogging is for those who dint really make it in the field they now blogs about. So now with the powere youve gained during the “everyone wins” economy you want to demand certain levels of accuracy as the world turns sideways and half of you slide off?
Don’t think so homey
How anybodys make a living in this virtual circle jerk among the small crowd of recruiting suppliers still defies the imagination.
P.S. Sign up for Dayak and get 10 commission free job fills if you combines it wiff a Careerbuilders account (also in conjunction wiff a LinkedIn training series of DVD from a social media expert). If you do this you will make yourself millions – but only iff you blogs about it. Constantly.
January 15th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Mark it was my lax attention to the sentence struture of the comment- most certainly directed at the Mold, not toward you.
Also earning MY respect is no badge of anything.
Maybe I was a little too strong with the friends comment (sort of the old “if you want a friend buy a dog” idea) but I was serious that you can’t count on comment threads for much more than a sense of what people are thinking/saying about a subject-
Thanks for the kind thoughts- with respect ;-)
January 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
The problem is being compounded by companies setting up systems for connecting cheap labor to do “under the radar” comment spam. I recently looked at bids on projects at Mechanical Turks (mturks.com). When you can pay 5 cents per comment, many companies with much ambition and little vision will be using it. On my blog, (here comes my plug: http://www.idonato.com) people have to register, if they post one bad comment, I delete them. Like the avatars that are being used cross-site, perhaps those can be extended. Basic concept: if you post crap and don’t rank, you get deleted. I’d like to refrain from continuing to hash over the positives and negatives and slam the door shut on comment spammers with a solid technology solution. Look what Askimet has done for blog spam with WordPress. Good post. Got me thinking.
January 20th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Part of the solution is to track IP’s of offenders and share them. Comment spammers are never particularly smart. It’s a horrible business model – especially as it’s just as easy to leave a real comment as it is to write a fake one.
A second part of the solution is to report it when someone asks you to leave comments in a manner like Mark said. It’s one thing to suggest a friend leave a comment if you know them. It’s quite another to mass email people and ask them to flood a site.
On my sites, I moderate the comments and identify the violators. They’re not as anonymous as they think.
Although Cheezhead does get a lot of goofballs who mock blogs and then can’t stay off the site – coming back over and over like a monkey in a science experiment, boosting site visitors again, and again.
January 21st, 2009 at 12:03 pm
aaah, I can at least glance over spam, unlike these spam articles, designed solely for the purpose of spamming search engines w/ “fresh useless content”. These articles are far worse than one or two lines with a url in it. We don’t need to control spammers, but spam article writers.